There's this bar around the corner from work that I'm really notorious for going to too often. Well, I used to, at least. It's a comfortable atmosphere, I know some of the bartenders, I like the scene and the other "young professionals" that come by every once in awhile. A couple of times when I wanted to relax after work and just have a drink (and none of my friends could join), I dared to go by myself, sit at the bar, and just relish a glass of wine. Of course, I learned that this is the equivalent of lathering yourself up in honey and sitting right smack-dab in the middle of a campground. Or oozing blood from my pores and swimming in shark-infested waters. You catch my drift. The first time I went, I was chatting with the bartender and he stepped away for a second, and this older Indian guy approached me with the line that ALWAYS cracks me up (and never ceases to FAIL MISERABLY): "so you come here often?" Actually, yes Sanjiv, I do. "Really? I haven't seen your pretty face around here before." Cue nervous glance at the bartender, who was being entertained by this. "Can I buy you a drink?" No thanks, Sanjiv, I'm good. "Are you suuuuure? Your glass looks empty there." Nope, thank you. "Well it's also my friend's birthday *points to friend watching at the end of the bar* and we were going to do shots, care to join us? C'mon!" Um, no, I'm just enjoying myself over here, thank you though. "Ok well let me know if you change your mind!" And Sanjiv walked back to his friend with a big, goofy smile, and managed to give me a thumbs-up from the end of the bar. I shit you not. I recently finished reading the 1973 feministic book "Fear of Flying" by Erica Jong for the first time and I was struck by a couple of issues us, women, have to deal with throughout our lives, especially the "No means no, you moron" dilemma.
"But suppose I had approached one of these men, and suppose he had rejected me, looked away, shown disgust, or revulsion. I would have immediately taken the rejection to heart, believed myself in the wrong, blamed myself for being an evil woman, a whore, a slut, a disturber of the peace. . .More to the point, I would have immediately blamed my own unattractiveness, not the man's reluctance, and I would have been destroyed for days by his rejection of me. Yet a man assumes a woman's refusal is just part of a game. Or, at any rate, a lot of men assume that. When a man says no, it's no. When a woman says no, it's yes, or at least maybe. There is even a joke to that effect. And little by little, women begin to believe this view of themselves. Finally, after centuries of living under the shadow of such assumptions, they no longer know what they want and can never make up their minds about anything. And men, of course, compound the problem by mocking them for their indecisiveness and blaming it on biology, hormones, premenstrual tension..."
I love it. Of course Jong is referring to proposals of sex, but I still found it relevant to what commonly happens to women when they are approached by men in bars. Had the shoe been on the other foot and I had approached a man, and he had declined my offer to buy him a drink (or in Jong's case, to take him home), my reaction would be precisely how Jong describes her own. Why do women react so critically towards themselves when they've been rejected? Is it because we're not, by nature, the "hunters" and therefore aren't used to rejection? Do men bounce-back so easily from turn-downs because they are a) used to it, b) expect it anyway, c) so arrogant that they really believe they can move on to another target easily? And, more importantly, why don't men get the HINT. No means no. Sometimes men are so persistent that I really can't be polite anymore - I have to say, look, I'm just not interested so stop wasting your time. Then they drop the "but you don't know me, how do you know FOR SURE that you're not interested" and try to argue. Do men just get off on the chase or the game?
I know I have more examples but I'll use them in later posts. Thoughts?
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6 comments:
Women never approach men! That's part of the problem. So girls just sit at the bar, waiting for Brad Pitt to stop by and buy them a drink, then when average joe/really nice guy tries to talk to them, they make him feel like a fool. Why? Cause nice guys really do finish last. Stop waiting for David Beckham to walk through the door and try hanging out with the good guys for a change. Also, if women would take the initiative and talk to men, then you wouldn't have the problem of the random guy approaching you.
i think the point here is the "no means no" aspect. so if the "average joe" approaches and is denied and then continues to persist, then he's making himself look like a fool.
It is unfortunate that a woman can't go out and have a drink without being bothered. Sadly, it is the byproduct of the system: Women are objects to be pursued and a man's job is to pursue. The goal of the pursuit is to obtain a suitable mate, and the pursuit must continue until the man succeeds. Failure, will inevitably have dire consequences.
So why do we persist in spite of obvious rejection? One reason may be that we expect that women will always show some resistance, for fear of coming across as too easy. Another reason may be an attempt to save face. It is a lot easier to accept "I have a boyfriend" than "I'm not interested." If you are single but not interested, it means that there is either something wrong with you or with us. And if there is nothing wrong with you and you rejected us, there must be something wrong with us. How much of that can we take without being completely destroyed or just giving up?
I can assure any woman that rejection is not much easier on men than it is on women. We might not show it, but we are undoubtedly bothered by it. It affects our confidence and self-esteem. The only difference is that we get used to it. Our first experience of rejection may have been just as bad as yours. But after the tenth or 100th time, we grow used to it and stop internalizing the rejection.
When we prod further, we are looking for one of two things: (a) proof that you are not rejecting us because there is something wrong with us, or (b) proof that there is something wrong with you. So by becoming hostile, you are merely justifying our post-hoc rationalization of your reaction and our decision to blame it on you.
So do us both a favor and tell us you have a boyfriend. It'll make things easier on both of us.
To mistamacigman I would say that if you are truly a nice guy, a bar or a club is not the place for you to pursue women. To set yourself apart in that environment you have to be exciting ... you have to win the battle of style over substance. If you aim to impress with your substance, then a woman has to get to know you before you make your "approach," so that she is not judging you by appearance.
Society is mainly the culprit. It is what the people are used to. I guess the man is expected to do the approaching since they are considered the leaders. It's like dancing, the man is the leader while the woman is the follower. So the man proposes a move and the woman chooses to take it or not. Unfortunately, men have also been taught that women want it even if they say no. That just shows their lack of respect for a human being and failing to see women as equally deserving of respect. However, women have also been taught to play games. I know plenty of women who play games and some who love it. I msyelf sometimes play the game without realizing, until it clicks in my head and I have to force myself from doing it. Which sometimes leads to confusion between the man and woman. Now although society has defined this process as such, things are slowly changing. Because of the newly found independence, there are more women doing what seem like guy things, for example pursuing a man. On the other hand, there are more men playing games, which sucks for me, cuz I really don't like playing games. Seems as women have adopted more of the traditional male activities, men have done the same with female activites. For example, you've got the metrosexual now and all these male fashion magazines aimed for men. Anyway, now a days more than before, I'd like to think of these issues more of a personality issue, woman or man.
does that make sense?
amir: wow, that was insightful. thanks for that. and i completely agree with your comment to mistamagicman. even for me, a bar or club is NOT where i want to meet guys. i can't help the inevitable, though, that those ARE the places they go to to pick up women and i will get approached. hence, why i now take a gaggle of girls or guys to ward them off :). but in the RARE occasion when i do notice someone and want to approach him, honestly, i am a deer in headlights. power to any man (or woman) that makes the first move.
shaudi: i know, it's interesting how there is role-switching now in courtship, isn't it? no matter how much we love it, hate it, try to avoid it, or practice it full-heartedly, the game will always exist. it is embedded in our genes and nature. some are better than others, some (like me) don't have the patience and fail miserably at it, and some have perfected it. but seriously, "game" is playing hard to get. not saying NO I'M NOT INTERESTED and still hoping the guy pursues relentlessly. get the f'ing hint, man, is all i'm saying.
but from now on, for those that can't STAND rejection, i will try "i'm sorry, i have a boyfriend." even though i am against stroking a stranger's ego and lying just to save his pride. psshh please. but if it means getting him to leave me alone, fine, i'll use the boyfriend line dammit.
True, once the line "no, i'm not interested" comes out. it should be clear. I'll come as your bodyguard next time ;)
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